I am trying to work out some issues with timing, regarding Widmore’s departure from the Island. Ben grew up with the people of the Dharma Initiative, and join the Others as an adult (perhaps around 20?), when he helped them wipe out the Dharma workers. When was that? The ‘70’s? Possibly. That would put Ben in his 50’s? Let’s assume he instigated his coup early on. So Widmore would have been tricked off the Island right after that. Penny would need to have been born right around that time, because I estimate that she is in her 30’s. Then Widmore would need to have risen to the top in the business world. It’s tight, but it fits.
However, I had been assuming that Widmore was working with the Dharma Initiative, which would have meant that he was already off the Island before Ben’s coup. I forget what I was basing this assumption on, but it seemed that he had a number of Dharma connections. Am I wrong about this, or am I just piecing the timeline together wrong? With time travel in the story now, this could be a real tough one to piece together.
Widmore is starting to look like he is less evil than we were being led to believe. If he was associated with Dharma, I am willing to consider that possibility. Of course, I won’t take his word for it just yet. It is quite possible that both sides are evil. Keamy, his henchman, did kill Alex in cold blood. Question is, how much was Keamy acting on his own, hand how much did he have Widmore’s blessing?
Locke changed his mind about trying to get Walt back to the Island. I don’t think he needed to try to get him, as Walt was let go by Ben, and the Island didn’t seem to have a problem with that.
It appeared to me that Ben talked Locke out of suicide because he needed find out how Locke was planning to get everyone back to the Island. Once Locke mentioned Hawking’s name, Ben had what he needed. And he didn’t want Locke around when he got back to the Island, because he wanted to come back as the leader again.
Is the time shifting still going on? Once the plane was in range of the Island, the islanders aboard just disappeared. Of course, with the pilot gone, the plane crashed. I think they went some short time into the future, because when the new survivors found Locke, it appeared that they were already settled in. They had found one of the hatches (the Hyrdra, I believe). Ben is still unconscious, though, so it can’t be too far in the future.
So the time shifting may still be going on. Do they still need to get Aaron back? How about Desmond? And why didn’t Ben disappear, like the rest of them did? Is the Island rejecting him?
I looks like Locke really was dead, and that the Island resurrected him. What does that say about Christian? Is he a ghost, or is he resurrected? He looked pretty solid to me. Before you ask, Andy, not everyone gets resurrected, as we can see by all the dead bodies all over the place. Adam and Eve in the cave (first season), the drug smugglers on the plane, the Dharma people in the ditch, and Ben’s dead father, found in the VW van.
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You mentioned in the last post, Roy, that this episode was originally scheduled to run before last week's. I agree with them that it worked well this week.
Yeah, it's difficult to figure out who was where when. I don't have any theories about when Widmore left. I, too, am getting the impression that he's not so evil. He told Desmond a few episodes back to go back to Penny and stay hidden to keep her safe. I don't begin to understand how each of the characters are related to the Dharma Initiative. Ben sure is being shown to be full of shit, completely manipulative and downright evil. Surely there's no ambiguity there?
Did I catch it right - that four days have passed on the island while 3 years have passed off island?
Do we know who killed Sayid's wife?
Do you believe John's girlfriend, Helen Norwood, died of a brain aneurism (sp?). Any significance to the date of her death: 4/18/06?
What did Locke put in the drawer? Why did he try to kill himself?
What do you mean about "why didn't Ben disappear like the other"? I taped the episode and the last few minutes were cut off, so I'm not sure what happened when the plane hit the time warp. I've only seen Jack, Kate and Hurley. And then Locke.
Yeah, I think Christian was resurrected. But, I still don't know what happened to Claire and whether she is dead or alive. Do you?
I never said I thought everyone gets resurrected. I believe that Christian moved the island in the past so he is eligible to be resurrected. Locke moved the island so he was resurrected when he came back. Of course, this means that Ben is eligible too. I suspect that Widmore moved it too.
Ben is definitely evil but I am still not sure who is the real danger between him and Widmore.
Anne, it was implied that Ben had Sayid's wife killed and blamed Widmore for it. All of that to get Sayid to do his dirty work.
What we meant about Ben not disappearing is that Kate, Jack, Sayid and Sayid (not sure about Sun yet) all disappeared in a flash of light when the plane crashed- because they were teleported in time. Ben and Locke were not. Interesting that Locke wasn't....
Point of fact, the pilot (Frank) did not get teleported off the plane according to the woman Locke was talking to. She said that the pilot and a woman (possibly Sun since we haven't seen her) took a boat and the passenger manifest and left the island.
Point of fact #2 in regards to timing. When Locke runs into Widmore on the island the timing is before the 60s. The atomic bomb they had suspended was HUGE (and it looked like a fat boy- which would have been late 40s early 50s). In addition, the rifles that they had taken from the American military were M1 Garands (and Sawyer made a point of saying it was brand new) which were used in 30s,40s and 50s (the army went to the M14 in the mid 50s although some National Guard units stuck with the M1 through the 70s). I am betting Carleton and Damon did their research on the M1 before using it so this should peg the encounter before the end of the 50s.
Anne, you asked if you caught it right, that four days have passed on the island while 3 years have passed off island. I don’t know if I would word it like that. The Oceanic Six left the island, and 3 years have passed. Three years ago, right after the escapees left, the people on the island started jumping through time. On one of their jumps, they went 3 years into their future. So it is not so much that 4 days have passed on the island, as that in the 4 days that Locke and the others have been jumping, they showed up 3 years later. If that makes any sense.
No we don’t know for sure who killed Nadia, but I agree with Andy, that it was probably Ben.
I don’t recall what Locke put in the drawer. I know he wrote a note to Jack, I don’t recall what he did with it. The reason he tried to kill himself was because he considered himself a failure. He believed that he was special, but then Kate argued that he was not. The one person from his old life that he cared about, Helen, was dead. (At this point, I don’t know of any reason to doubt that she is dead. Significance of the date, 4/18/06? None that I know of.) And finally, he had failed to convince a single person to come back with him to the island. It became clear to him that not only was he NOT special, but he was a complete failure. He had nothing to live for, and so he tried to kill himself.
I’m not sure that Claire is dead. All I know about Claire is that she left Aaron and went off with Christian, which does seems kind of odd. Christian must have some kind of powerful influence over people. If he is a ghost, that may explain it. If he has been resurrected, it may be harder to explain. On a tangent, Jack saw Christian a couple of time after his rescue, so that is another argument for Christian being a ghost.
Andy, I am not sure that Locke didn’t disappear with the others. When Locke showed up, it looked to me as if the crash survivors that already started to settle in. There was already time for the pilot and the woman (thanks for reminding me of that. I didn’t notice that), to leave in a canoe, and for the survivors to find a hatch. So when the flash of light took them off the plane, it may have taken Locke with, and dropped them off a few days or so in the future.
As for the timing, yes, they met Widmore in the 50’s, but no need to work so hard to figure that out. Locke asked Alpert what year it was ( I don’t remember the exact year, but I remember that it was in the mid 50’s), and told Alpert to visit him after he is born in 1956. Wow, Locke’s not that much older than I am.
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